Approach Into Cardiff EGFF

[GAJ52]

Hi

 

I tried to create a short flight from London City EGLC to Cardiff EGFF. The route from the UK SRD gave EGLC CPT CDF1C EGFF.

 

Using EFB 1.3.1 SP2 I set up the flight as follows EGLC rwy 09 CPT6U to CPT then CDF1C to CDFNB. The runway in use was 30 so I used the ILS Rwy 30 option for the approach.

 

I could not get the CDF1C STAR to join the RWY 30 ILS FAF or CF30, there is no smooth transition from the STAR to the ILS approach.

 

What am I doing wrong ?

 

Glen

[aivlasoft]

Hi Glen,

 

as far as I can see (using AIRAC 1106) the CDF1C arrival ends at the CDF NDB (388.5) which is the airport navaid. Then the approach procedure for ILS 30 starts at CDF NDB, course 136° for about 8 NM, then LT (left turn) to intercept the localizer ICWA 110.7/300°.

 

Maybe Wycliffe can shed some more light on that ?

[wycliffe]

Indeed I can,

 

 

As you have both identified the CDF1C does indeed end at the CDF NDB, when I first started flying on FS and using charts a friend of mine and myself spent quite sometime agonising over how one was supposed to manage that approach to rwy 30 or indeed 12.

 

One has to use the procedural approaches in conjunction with the STAR chart, if of course your flying offline and just relying on your wits, and not the FS ATC.

 

Of course in the real world there is never no ATC and so even though a Pilot will have the CDF1C arrival in his FMC he will be given vectors to the ILS, which funnily enough is what happens in VATSIM remembering of course that we don't have 24/7 coverage on VATSIM.

 

If your on your own with no ATC then you can self vector to the ILS or if your a glutton for punishment try the procedural approaches, which are jolly good fun.

 

Rarely do pilots in the Real world at cardiff do procedural approaches but on VATSIM pilots will elect to do them, something that I enjoy doing myself and as a controller like the extra challenge of issuing instructions for a procedural approach.

 

Wycliffe

[GAJ52]

Urs, Wycliffe

 

Many thanks for your help

 

What threw me was seeing the transition in the Approach Procedures page saying CDF (Northwest), as I was coming in from the East I thought it didn't apply to me - wrong !!

 

I can now see the Procedural Turns you mentioned Urs, although its a pretty tight left turn inbound to CDF then outbound on the 136 deg leg. Wycliffe, as you say the sensible thing to do is self vector onto the ILS from BRI.

 

Wycliffe I'm currently trying to learn how to use PMDG JS41, FS2Crew Voice and EFB. When I'm happy with all three I'll come and practice the above route on Vatsim and you can tell me how it should be done

 

Regards, Glen

[GAJ52]

Is there any way to modify a STAR or Approach ?

 

In the above routing I would like to modify BRI direct to CF30 so the Decent profile makes sense, but EFB only gives me the option to Remove STAR or Remove Approach, NOT a waypoint within the STAR (in this case CDF NDB).

 

A STAR or Approach is not set in stone and very often as Wycliffe has said the ATC Controller will vector you from the STAR to the ILS approach. When ATC is not available, it would be useful to be able to modify the arrival (STAR or Approach) during the Enroute phase so a reasonable descent profile is given prior to TOD.

 

Glen

[GG_Flyer]

Is there any way to modify a STAR or Approach ?

 

Glen,

 

No and to be quite frank (Hello Frank!) that has not even been considered until your request.

 

The closest one could come to such currently would be to use the Direct To function which plots a new route from where you currently are to the waypoint you designate. I'm fairly certain that would not give you the ability to modify your descent profile as you would like.

 

I will think on how / if it could be accomplished as you describe, but even if I could develop a cunning plan, it could only be realized in a completely new version of EFB - the books have been closed on new features for 1.x.

[GAJ52]

Travis,

 

I think from your answer you can see what I'm getting at.

 

With the route described above, from BRI NDB I could select 'Direct To' CF30, but by that time I would already be in the descent, and the descent profile would then mean a fairly steep descent to arrive at CF30 at the correct altitude. I remember in another similar program, it may have been FS Commander (not sure now) it was impossible to modify a STAR, which is not realistic in the real world, as ATC (if and when available) could vector you to anywhere on the approach.

 

This would be a very useful function in EFB version 2.0

 

Glen

[wycliffe]

Glen

 

This is where I make a complete fool of myself, only being a VATSIM controller unlike your realworld experience as an ex 747 pilot, but I will press on.

 

My understanding of the CDF1C and the descent profile is that even with an adjustment of direct to from BRI to the ILS feather entry point you would still have time to make the 2200ft capture.

 

The training I have had is that you would arrive at the BRI at FL80 and leave the BRI descending to 4000ft on the QNH and then further descent to 2200 at 220 knots slowing to 180knots for final approach speed on the glideslope.

 

Regarding the procedural app, it does look tight I have to agree and was amazed when I did it myself in the PMDG 747, MD11 etc, give it a go. In the Jetstream it will be as easy as pie although my mate who flies the jetstream tells me its a case of "slow down if you want to get down".

 

 

All the best

 

Wycliffe

[GAJ52]

Hi Wycliffe,

 

I've edited my previous post, I was a Flight Engineer not a Pilot. I had the pleasure of delivering one or two 747 Classics into the maintenance base at Cardiff, but I'm blowed if I can remember the arrival procedure.

 

Glen

[chris198]

In the Jetstream it will be as easy as pie although my mate who flies the jetstream tells me its a case of "slow down if you want to get down".

 

 

Hi,

 

With the Jetstream you should be configured Flaps 15, Gear down, ~150 kt at the FAF

or it won´t be easy !

 

Christian