Waypoints mis aligned

[gsumner]

How come the Sid/ star waypoints are different than route waypoints in this release.

 

Eg

 

EXMOR on the Sid is dist 30.3 R302 YVL 109.05

 

And enroute is

 

Dist 31.3 R303 YVL 109.05

 

Lost of occurrences just like this everywhere too.

 

Graham

[aivlasoft]

Hi Graham,

 

could you please provide one or two screenshots where I can see it.

- At which airport does this happen?

- Which AIRAC cycle and

- which provider (Aerosoft or Navigraph)?

 

Thanks.

[gsumner]

Hi,

 

Here is the pics you requested. Current Airac Cycle 1310 rev1 from Navdata Pro.

 

This is happening at lots of Airports, I picked just 3. Seems maybe data being used from 2 sources. One for enroute and one for sid/stars

 

 

EXMO1Z

 

 

BANVA4Q

 

 

 

SARG1T

 

 

I havent noticed this in previous cycles. Hope this helps.

 

Graham

[gsumner]

Here also demonstrated is a VOR whos co-ordinates don't match

 

 

Hope you can help.

 

Ive posted a link to this thread in the navdata pro forum also seeing if they can shed some light on whats going on.

 

Ive noticed that whilst flying, my aircraft lines up with approach and departure tracks but is slightly off course enroute. So maybe the enroute waypoints are incorrect in this set of data.

 

Graham

[GG_Flyer]

I recognize YVL as being close to EGGD, so I will look into that one....

[GG_Flyer]

Graham,

 

EXMOR as you depict on the SID is correct - I've no idea where the other one came from. There are three possible sources of NavData positions and I've checked my NavDataPro 13/10 files and all three match.

 

Could you please post to me your efbr file for all of these routes in email? Use {my first name as seen below} @AivlaSoft.com.

 

As for the duplicated VOR, I think that must come from a scenery - EFB does not use NavData information to place navaids.

[gsumner]

Do you think it's because I've updated to the latest magnetic.bgl file perhaps ?

[GG_Flyer]

I've no idea. In that regard I'm running with whatever FSX Acceleration shipped with, I'm afraid.

 

Where did this file come from? If it's a simple copy-paste operation, I could give it a try. (I'm very hesitant to use an EXE scenery installer unless it would describe every file operation in advance.)

[gsumner]

I got the file from here

 

http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html

 

Under advice from ifly developers. Its not an exe and source is good.

 

Will email my routes to you when i get home. Also i could reload last months airac cycle and check that out

[Andydigital]

Rather than Travis putting his PC at risk why dont you remove the file from your PC and test it, I thought the tweak came with an uninstall feature so why not try it.

[gsumner]

Its just a copy and paste the one i used. Ill have a look later on when home fr

om work.

[gsumner]

Hi,

 

I restored the last airac cycle and tested . . . . .same problem

 

I restored backup magdec.bgl and restarted fsx then checked efb . . . .problem still there.

 

Below are waypoint details (lat/long) from the latest update. Without the correct maths . . are they the same when you convert them to the same format ?

 

 

wpNavFIX.txt

 

EXMOR 51.178611 -3.359722

 

EGGD.txt

 

EXMOR LATLON N 51 10.71667 W 3 21.58333

 

 

Ill email you the files you requested in an earlier post.

 

Graham

 

EDIT where and what are the efbr files your need please ?

[GG_Flyer]

Graham,

 

Those values are equivalent. For instance if you multiply the fractional value of 51.178611 by 60 (the number of minutes in a degree) you get 10.71666.

 

The efbr files are your EFB Route files and should be in \Documents\AivlaSoft\EFB\UserData\Routes\

 

Andy,

 

I'm fairly comfortable that I could undo a file replacement... but a long fight with some basic configuration files (autogen descriptions, etc.) has me a little gun-shy about making any other changes for the short term. (Yeah, an American who is gun-shy. Really. )

[Andydigital]

I've experienced similar hence my post.

[GG_Flyer]

Graham,

 

We've received your route file. It indicates that the source of the route is FSX - so my assumption is that you may have changed your FSX waypoints and navaids and as a result they are not in the same positions as the NavData sources would have them. In effect, by using FSX as the source of your route it's telling EFB "start at EXMOR (which is at this position) and then go on to the next position...." Then when you add the EXMO1Z SID, EFB uses the position of EXMOR from NavData... which is different than where your FSX data places it.

 

To test my theory, take your route's ATS string:

 

EGGD EXMO1Z EXMOR UN864 TIVER NOTRO UN90 SKESO UN862 TERPO UM616 TUPAR UM184 CNA UN863 AGN UN727 SARGO SARG3F LEMH

 

... and paste that into your EFB's Route Setup -- Select -- Enter Route Description textbox. This would let EFB build the route using only NavData positions.

 

That should give you a clean route with no duplicated waypoints or navaids.

[gsumner]

That'll be that NAVaid update site I spoke about in an earlier post. I export from pfpx if that makes a difference. How can I get the original files back. However due to magnetic changes they are supposedly in more accurate locations than the originals.

 

Ill look into it and post back my findings.

 

Thanks for your support guys

 

Graham

[gsumner]

Graham,

 

We've received your route file. It indicates that the source of the route is FSX - so my assumption is that you may have changed your FSX waypoints and navaids and as a result they are not in the same positions as the NavData sources would have them. In effect, by using FSX as the source of your route it's telling EFB "start at EXMOR (which is at this position) and then go on to the next position...." Then when you add the EXMO1Z SID, EFB uses the position of EXMOR from NavData... which is different than where your FSX data places it.

 

To test my theory, take your route's ATS string:

 

EGGD EXMO1Z EXMOR UN864 TIVER NOTRO UN90 SKESO UN862 TERPO UM616 TUPAR UM184 CNA UN863 AGN UN727 SARGO SARG3F LEMH

 

... and paste that into your EFB's Route Setup -- Select -- Enter Route Description textbox. This would let EFB build the route using only NavData positions.

 

That should give you a clean route with no duplicated waypoints or navaids.

Your theory is quite correct. Does that mean I shouldnt import from FSX .pln files. I use PFPX . . what do you suggest ?

 

Thanks

Graham

[GG_Flyer]

Graham,

 

I'm not certain how PFPX builds its files (it's on my to-buy list, but I'm juggling a few other things at the moment) so all I can do is speculate.

 

It's certain that you can load the PLN file into EFB and use the copy / paste / recreate method using the route string. If you could copy that string from PFPX somehow and paste that into EFB, that would save a step.

 

However if you've started removing the updated files then it could be that new PLN files would not require the extra step. Make a test every so often using a route with "known problems" such as the one you've shared - use PFPX to recreate a PLN file and see if it loads into EFB. Even if you come across a happy compromise and can make new PLN files, existing PLN files would need to be addressed somehow, as they would contain the "non-NavData" locations.

 

I am intrigued by the navaid update process though - I certainly do not want to disparage it. I'm now wondering that if one were to load that PLN file into a NavData-driven aircraft wouldn't that aircraft possibly exhibit the "dual EXMOR" symptom once the SID were entered?

 

Do keep us posted!

[gsumner]

Hi Travis

If i export to fs commander and import that to efb all is well.

Its the fsx.pln thats problematic.

Exports to ifly are also fine. No duplicates. I have a forum ticket in with navdata update site to see if its rogue data from them.

 

PFPX is an excellent program especially when coupled with TOPCAT. Adds the extra level of realism as i get deeper into this hobby.

 

Ill keep you up to date but would like to get the original files back to fsx and see what happens as perhaps my reversal of data updates didnt work.

 

Thanks

Graham

[gsumner]

Hi Travis,

 

The plot thickens.

 

1.Built by PFPX exported to FSX.pln format and imported to Electronic Flight Bag

 

 

 

 

2.Built by PFPX exported to FS Commander and imported to Electronic Flight Bag

 

 

 

 

3.Built by FSBuild exported to FSX.pln format and imported to Electronic Flight Bag

 

 

 

As you can see only one of them (2) agrees. I would suggest the common denominator is Navdat Pro data.

 

 

What say you?. Ill raise a query with them and point them to this thread if thats ok with you.

 

Graham

 

here is a link to my thread with Navdata Pro

 

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/to ... waypoints/

[aivlasoft]

Graham,

 

when reading a flight plan, EFB is trying to find a match for each waypoint in the internal database. The "problem" is that often a waypoint name exists not only once around the world but twice or more. Therefore (even if the name of the waypoint matches) EFB also calculates the distance between two identically named waypoints to verify whether it is the same waypoint at the "same" location. But often the position (latitude/longitude) of two waypoints at the "same" location is slightly different, and therefore EFB is using a maximum range within two different positions are treated as "same". From your example I can see that the distance seems to be too close and therefore the waypoint EXMOR (which is part of the SID procedure from NavDataPro) is not treated as the "same" waypoint EXMOR which comes from the MSFX flight planner.

[GG_Flyer]

Graham,

 

Please ZIP and post the three separate PLN files and the three separate EFBR files. I will analyze them as I would need the specific positions of each fix.

 

I still feel fairly confident in my assumptions... I don't own any of those flight planners so I can't speak as to how each of them determines the waypoint data to build their PLN files. It's clear though that they each do things a little differently.

 

But although their details are different, it's essentially the same process - something is telling each of the planners to place EXMOR in a specific position... which different from the position it is given in NavData. So when you add a procedure that also includes one of these waypoints, if - as Urs notes - the new waypoint is more than a fraction of a minute distant, EFB rules that to be a different fix... making a duplicate.

 

It's possible for Urs to relax the distance requirements, but I submit that is only "papering over one problem" only to raise another. At this point now which fix position should EFB draw? The one from NavData, or the one that is specified in the PLN file?

 

And we're only discussing EXMOR here... there are still the duplicate VORs in your initial posting. I see them in the EFBR file you posted me even though I'm using stock navaids. I would not want EFB to draw a navaid where I don't have one....

[gsumner]

Maybe this is the answer

 

http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php ... ft-EFB-map

 

Graham

[GG_Flyer]

Maybe that is... we all make maths errors from time to time.

 

I would still recommend using the route string as the most simple and practical method of inter-addon route transfer, especially when precision is needed.