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"All the procedure data comes from Navigraph"

ontheair
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ontheair

ontheair

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Let's take just one example among others : the EFB LIRF ILS 16R Y/Z approach charts compared with the corresponding Navigraph nDAC charts dated Oct 6 2009 = latest version

 

On the EFB chart some important elements are still missing :

 

- all the IAF (TAQ,BOL,CMP,ROM)

- the 2 HP (CMP, ROM)

- Initial+Intermediate+Final approach legs coming from the different IAF

- the MSA display centered on OST VOR

- and all the relevant information provided at the bottom of approach charts (ILS categories, minimums, etc..)

 

I just want to know if you are planning to add those relevant elements for all airport approach charts in the EFB next releases to come ?

 

:?::?::?::?:

 

PS : concerning the chart objects and among them the fixes, how can I get the fix-name labels to be displayed on the approach chart ? I tried a 5 zoom factor with no success.

 

Many thanks

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aivlasoft

aivlasoft

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ontheair,

 

Procedures in EFB are based on the Navigraph FMS data. If the FMS data provides more detailed information, EFB can show this information. The current dataset doesn't contain MSA and the other things you asked for. An inquiry to Richard Stefan from Navigraph, concerning these items, is pending. But not to forget, it never was my intention to copy/rebuild the nDAC charts. EFB wants to provide you a platform for a paperless cockpit which is yet another philosophy.

 

Re fixes: the amount of objects which are drawn by EFB is limited (due to performance reasons). If you activate the "Fixes" chart objects, just zoom in to a more detailed view (which results in less objects on the screen) and you will see the labels of the fixes too. Another way to show the labels is to reduce other objects (e.g. NDBs, VORs, ...)

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ontheair

ontheair

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Hello,

 

OK, I do understand your intention with EFB "is not to copy/rebuild the nDAC charts", but would you please tell me how can you make a correct approach procedure without knowing MSA, approach legs from IAF, minimums and the rest ?

 

"EFB does provide a platform for a paperless cockpit" yes it's true but does "paperless cockpit" mean we still need at least the good old paper approach plates/charts to proceed a correct approach ?

 

I'm glad to know an inquiry related to MSA and the rest is pending with Richard at Navigraph. BTW is there a risk they may loose some customers with EFB ? AFAIK I don't think so because to get new AIRAC cycles you must be a Navigraph regular customer. Right or wrong ?

 

Have a good day

 

;););)

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aivlasoft

aivlasoft

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ontheair,

 

all our beta-testers have been flying hundreds of approaches into several airports with different types of aircrafts but none of them has ever crashed or complained about missing data (to my knowledge).

 

If you talking about "correct" approaches, then I would like to remember that we are not flying in a correct (means "real") world and nothing is perfect. I know that MSA - apart from other things - is an important information when flying an approach and - believe me - I'm personally interested in getting more detailed charts, but we have to wait for this data. Every AIRAC-cycle costs approx. 2 EUR which is not for free but it's a very favorable price. I can imagine that an AIRAC-cycle in real-life (with much more information) costs much more.

 

I think that we never should forget that our beloved hobby takes place in a simulated world which has its advantages and - of course - its disadvantages. So let's find a good balance between simulation, imagination and reality.

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KAPTEJNLN

KAPTEJNLN

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WELL ontheair IS RIGHT SOME DATA IS MISSING. well i got problems whit (LPMA) Madeira i miss the arival procidure as i know ther is for rwy 05 on charts but cant show it in you program a bit disapointing not all charts is included becaus then i stil need charts for flyeing approches. i buy it was it to have no paper and could folow my flight on my other pc as a big help but then not all data is supportet that is not good. a balance i dont agree as people like me take it sirius and know other that do the same, and it would be the same as i sell you a new wheel but dosent calibrate it.

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GG_Flyer

GG_Flyer

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Kaptejnln,

 

I'm using the base AIRAC 0911 cycle and for LMPA Rwy 05 I see a single approach - VORDME with 3 transitions - ABUSU, FUN, and FUN12.

 

This is the only approach for Rwy 05 in the Navigraph data cycle 0911. There is no approach data for Rwy 05 in the stock FSX data, for what it's worth.

 

From your perspective, what approach data is missing? Do you have paper-only charts, or could you supply a URL to an online chart??

 

Having never flown this airport, I can venture that the missed approach procedure for Rwy 05 seems chilling - "Climb on track 212... heading 139... intercept FUN radial 172..." I'm dizzy just trying to picture that. :o

 

Regards,

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KAPTEJNLN

KAPTEJNLN

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WELL EASY IF YOU HAVE navigraph ndac 3.0 you would find a chart named circling rwy 05 (NDB y / z) (CDA) there you hace the approche that is in use 365 days a year from FUN (mad) fix point 3.6dm from fun another fix 940 waypoint gelo and the rosario right before tuch down (The guidig lights)

 

that one is missing.

 

so yes navigraph have that info

 

you can see a chart on this site page 11-15 : http://194.65.136.229/ais/airacs/LP_Amd ... _en_P8.pdf

 

and it is suportet in some of the fms data

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ontheair

ontheair

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Hello,

 

I just want to make sure you did understand I'm not complaining about EFB with my recent post "All procedure data comes from Navigraph". From my point of vue and as far as I know, EFB is currently the most achieved add-on of its kind I've ever seen. I'm now a regular and registered EFB customer. Do you think I would have bought EFB if not 95% satisfied ?

 

But once again let me remind you what we all can read on EFB site :

 

"The EFB add-on replaces the unhandy paper flight-bag by a process-oriented software application. EFB is a bit ahead of reality:

* You no longer need to dig for charts as all the charts are calculated and rendered based on the current route setup

* The charts are automatically shown up as per the demand of the actual flight profile

As a top realistic easy-to-use application EFB provides all the necessary aeronautical charts and other relevant information to perform a flight in a much more convenient way than with the old-fashionned paper flight-bag"

 

You must admit this is 90% true for the moment and it might be close to 99% true some day in case you find an agreement with the NAvigraph team to provide some of the missing information on approach charts specially. You know what I'm talking about. It means to fly a specific approach some of us who are not familiar with a given airport need to dig for approach charts wherever they come from, official or not.

 

To make it short "paperless" means less and less paper, but it doesn't mean no more paper at all.

 

Consequently may I suggest it would be fair to tell it this way, or a similar one, with the possible expected improvments that may come in the future. Once again I don't feel "trompé/abusé" at all buying EFB, but "une mise au point produit" would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks for reading

 

Best regards ;);)

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