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is there an intention to build-in/add the published holdings/patterns into a future update/release?

 

one reason to still have charts handy. holding points, inbound track, altitude..

 

thanks for consideration

RT

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Hi "RT"

 

the holdings that are currently shown in EFB are only the missed-approach holdings. They provide altitude and in-/outbound track information. This information is taken from the Navigraph procedures data.

 

We are searching for a source for the enroute-holdings, because Navigraph currently doesn't provide this information.

 

BTW: Please, according to the forum rules, sign your posts with your real first name. We like to know to whom we talk. Thanks.

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A possible next step are holds found on STARS. These are more likely to be used meaning holds are issued more often during arrivals more so than enroute, at least online.

 

I think Navigraph has published STAR holdings?

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I think Navigraph has published STAR holdings?

We had talked with them several months ago about such, but nothing definite ever emerged.

 

Do you know if Navigraph have published holds in STARs either for a specific airport or for a specific format??

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not too sure but i believe airac's for pmdg md-11 (they are all the same for pmdg) do.

 

example would be a simple flight:

lszh to lsgg

the holding pattern over spr shows in the fmc when approaching st.prex vor for a standard ils23 app.

 

marc

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The holding over SPR is part of the missed approach procedure (all approach procedures for runways 05 and 23).

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Looking at the PMDG (and AivlaSoft) dataset from Navigraph, there are missed approach holds at SPR for LSGG. But no holds in any STAR data.

 

We have some ideas on how to support this for the next version of EFB. Nothing in concrete yet though.

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I would very much appreciate it if holdings are in the generated charts of efb. I've had a discussion with Navigraph, but it seems they are of the opinion that holdings are not a part of arrivals or approaches. This view was strongly contested by some real life pilots, pointing out atc is telling them to hold at a published holding pattern which is in the published charts.

In my opinion they should be in the efb, because what's the point of an efb if you still need paper charts (for a published holding)?

I understand the problem lies with Navigraph. :x Maybe some rl pilots should talk to them.

By the way, efb is a great application. I use it with pleasure!

 

Gert

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Thank you for your kind words Gert!

 

We are in full agreement on the nicety of being able to display arrival holds. I myself would also like to have enroute holds noted... such as this holding point on Victor 6 here in NorCal.

 

(I also see a changeover point, a minimum crossing altitude flag, a reporting point, lots of goodies in fact. :D )

 

Regards,

 

[attachment=0]v6hold.png[/attachment]

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i agree with gert (see my initial post) and strongly disagree with navigraph. my experience with 'them' shall better be left untold...

 

you are cleared for the xyz star...

a bit later (with heavy traffic and/or emergencies, etc)

enter the hold over xyz as published....

the critical point here is: 'as published'!

so you got busy traffic and then you have to bother the atco again by asking: inbound track, left or right - leg lenght etc.

this is why such standard procedures are published - to make it easier on both, pilots and atcos.

navigraph makes it easy for themselves, as it seems.

 

need i say more? of course does the 'published holding' belong to a proper documentation!

or else we still have to go with tons of 'paperwork', pdf's, jview etc, and that's exactly adject to efb's policy.

 

and another point:

it is impossible to delete a 'waypoint' on the star/sid without efb telling you that it is deleting the entire star/sid.

 

example:

parch1 app kjfk - published star says clearly to overfly jfk vor and expect vectors for either 31R or L.

in most cases (and note, the approach from the north-east starts WAY and long before even reaching 'approach control' (over rober waypoint) - you will get vectors leaving out jfk VOR (in most cases), saving time - vectors to the IAF.

ok you can just continue to fly as 'guided' but that makes the entire map stuff absolete. i am not holding my breath here... :)

 

just my 2 cents of 'Contribution' not a complaint. and isn't this forum intended to share our inputs, too?

 

nuff said, i rest my case

marc

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Marc,

 

version 2 will let you delete any waypoint, regardless whether it is part of a procedure or not.

 

Holdings:

Does anyone know of a official source (like ARINC 424 data) where holdings are published? If we were having such a "list" (or database, or ...) I could implement it in EFB.

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that's indeed good news - thanks urs.

 

the only reliable and updated 'database' would actually be jeppesen (but that's a real copyright issue).

all else is patchwork and painful collecting work.

 

appreciate your reply

marc

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Thanks Urs for your trouble on this subject.

I will try if I can find a reliable database. I now edited some ehgg appr in the navdata. BUT each new cycle can overwrite the holding edited......

I copied the syntax from missed appr holdongs eg from eheh.

I hope Navigraph will change their strange attitude.....

Thanks again, Urs

 

Gert

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