ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Hello to all, In efb2 the runway description (EBLG) is shown as: 04L 04R 22L 22R But all other Addons (inkl.P3dv4 and ATC-Programs,....) recognize those runways correctly as: 05L 05R 23L 23R How can I correct this error ? In EFB1 there is a text file (Runways.txt) where I can correct such things ! Is there a similar possibility in EFB2 ? Didn't find anything so far.... thanks in advance ggerolamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpr Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 RTFM. Check the Database Manual, chapter 2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha117 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 04 and 22 are correct ans as per the charts and EFB. What ATC program shows 05 and 23? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, hpr said: RTFM. meaningless answer is ignored ... 3 minutes ago, alpha117 said: 04 and 22 are correct ans as per the charts and EFB. What ATC program shows 05 and 23? Sorry, who says correct ? All programs, as I explained earlier, show the same runways (05L 05R 23L 23R) inkl. P3D !! (...nothing to do with ATC...) Even the Database-Builder shows 05L 05R 23L 23R....!? But not the GROUND MAP - there are the runway descriptions 04L,04R,22L,22R !!?? Within the same program, two different contents are recorded.... that's weird... ggerolamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha117 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I only have base scenery for EBLG and I get 04 and 22 in EFB as per the Navigarph charts. Sorry , are you saying that Navigraph is not correct? As I said I can only check against base scenery and charts. Can't be much more help I'm afraid on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, ggerolamo said: .. Even the Database-Builder shows 05L 05R 23L 23R....!? But not the GROUND MAP - there are the runway descriptions 04L,04R,22L,22R !!?? Within the same program, two different contents are recorded.... that's weird... ...because the DatabaseBuilder has corrected the Runway Layout according to the ARINC file! Remember, ARINC is the OFFICIAL source for all aviation issues. To check this, there's a simple thing to do: While in Ground Mode press Ctrl+Alt+A and the overlay of the official ARINC runways will depicted in RED. At the same time the Runway labels of the initial runway layout will change to what was initially read from the Simulator. In this case the "old" 05/23 layout. We have decided to show the official runway designators, as far as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, lonewulf47 said: because the DatabaseBuilder has corrected the Runway Layount according to the ARINC file But why is at the same time the AIRPORT-MAP in EFB2 showing 04 and 22 ?? That's the thing I don't understand ! should not DatabaseBuilder and MAP show the same results ? greetings ggerolamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aivlasoft Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, ggerolamo said: But all other Addons (inkl.P3dv4 and ATC-Programs,....) recognize those runways correctly as: 05L 05R 23L 23R What means "Correctly" from your point of view? If I have a look at the ARINC-424 data, the 'correct' identifiers are 04L 04R 22L 22R. The term 'correct' in this regard means 'according to real world'. However, if the scenery from EBLG on your computer is stock scenery and this scenery shows the old (outdated) identifiers 05L 05R 23L 23R then this might be 'correct' from that point of view. When the Database Builder is creating a new database, one of its tasks is to make sure that the ARINC procedures (which are from real world) can be matched to the runways of your simulator. For EBLG this means that a procedure for e.g. (real-world-identfier) 04L cannot be mapped to the (outdated-identfier) 05L of the scenery. Therefore the Db-Builder creates an internal mapping table where the identifier 05L will be mapped to 04L. When you later (on the Client) are opening the PROC window, the available procedure is listed there for the runway 04L (not for 05L), because in reality its for 04L. Therefore the runway identifier on the map is also changed to 04L in order to not have a disagree between them. This mapping table does not have an impact on the scenery files itself, that's why P3D and other programs still show 05L. In EFB v1 you had to manually enter such mappings, this is now done automatically with v2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timonier Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Hello, I'm living near from EBLG and I confirm the Urs's words. The official rwy at EBLG are 04L,04R ,22L and 22R. Best Regards Marc PS : and if you'll change on your map then Check the Database Manual, chapter 2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 Urs, thank you for the answer ! 1 hour ago, aivlasoft said: 'correct' identifiers are 04L 04R 22L 22R. The term 'correct' in this regard means 'according to real world'. Yes, I know that all - that 'real world' and AIRAC infos are 04L 04R 22L 22R ! Nevertheless I want that my intern EFB MAPS shows me the the same Infos that my P3D has (05L,..22L,..)!!! Simple Question again: In EFB1 it was possible to remap the runways manually via Runways.txt - to show me 05L,..22L,..(the reality of my simulation) regardless of the 'real' airac data ? Is this also possible in EFB2 or not ? If it is possible, please tell me how ! greetings ggerolamo PS.: 24 minutes ago, Timonier said: PS : and if you'll change on your map then Check the Database Manual, chapter 2.5 thanks for the next meaningless answer... 'Real life' airways are 04,23,.. I never denied that that was right - but it's not my current problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, ggerolamo said: Urs, thank you for the answer ! Yes, I know that all - that 'real world' and AIRAC infos are 04L 04R 22L 22R ! Nevertheless I want that my intern EFB MAPS shows me the the same Infos that my P3D has (05L,..22L,..)!!! Simple Question again: In EFB1 it was possible to remap the runways manually via Runways.txt - to show me 05L,..22L,..(the reality of my simulation) regardless of the 'real' airac data ? Is this also possible in EFB2 or not ? If it is possible, please tell me how ! Simply, NO! We do not match procedures to "wrong" runways, even if this seems so terribly important for the reality of your simulation. Procedures are from Real World, thus they need real world runways. It's as simple as that. I think Urs has explained it to the extents. Please do not compare to EFB v1. Things are completely different and partially outdated there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 In this case, unfortunately, this is a huge step backwards In the Simulator world, The 'real world' is the SIM-WORLD not the AIRAC-WORLD ! And if the sim don't have the correct (airac world) scenery-datas I want the map to read the FS data to show me... In this case I have to compare to EFB1 - That works like all other maps and addons too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsk8 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ggerolamo said: Urs, thank you for the answer ! Yes, I know that all - that 'real world' and AIRAC infos are 04L 04R 22L 22R ! Nevertheless I want that my intern EFB MAPS shows me the the same Infos that my P3D has (05L,..22L,..)!!! Simple Question again: In EFB1 it was possible to remap the runways manually via Runways.txt - to show me 05L,..22L,..(the reality of my simulation) regardless of the 'real' airac data ? Is this also possible in EFB2 or not ? If it is possible, please tell me how ! greetings ggerolamo PS.: thanks for the next meaningless answer... 'Real life' airways are 04,23,.. I never denied that that was right - but it's not my current problem... You just don't get it, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayProudfoot Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ggerolamo said: In this case, unfortunately, this is a huge step backwards In the Simulator world, The 'real world' is the SIM-WORLD not the AIRAC-WORLD ! And if the sim don't have the correct (airac world) scenery-datas I want the map to read the FS data to show me... In this case I have to compare to EFB1 - That works like all other maps and addons too... The data in P3D is real world but fixed at a certain date. Over time the position of the Earth’s magnetic pole moves slightly. Over time this change results in runway headings being incorrect. Let’s assume this heading was never changed in the 70 years since London Heathrow was constructed. The runway would be identified in the 50s probably as 11/29. By 1987 they had become 09/27. If those runway headings had not changed the runway ID would read 29R but your compass would be reading 273. Do you think that would be realistic and safe? Or would it confuse pilots? All runways around the world have to have their runway designator changed. If you want your sim to be frozen in time then fine. But you can’t fly any aircraft that rely on correct navigation data. So no PMDG aircraft. You’ll be fine flying VFR though. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 56 minutes ago, RayProudfoot said: The data in P3D is real world but fixed at a certain date. Over time the position of the Earth’s magnetic pole moves slightly. Over time this change results in runway headings being incorrect. Let’s assume this heading was never changed in the 70 years since London Heathrow was constructed. The runway would be identified in the 50s probably as 11/29. By 1987 they had become 09/27. If those runway headings had not changed the runway ID would read 29R but your compass would be reading 273. Do you think that would be realistic and safe? Or would it confuse pilots? All runways around the world have to have their runway designator changed. If you want your sim to be frozen in time then fine. But you can’t fly any aircraft that rely on correct navigation data. So no PMDG aircraft. You’ll be fine flying VFR though. ? Ray, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 Ray, I have been using several flight simulators for several decades now I admire your professional statements in many relevant simmer groups, but believe me, in this case your answer (or instruction ;-)) unfortunately has nothing to do with my problem! Believe me: I know the difference between RL and simulation Alright, I accept that I have to live with this map-display problem (without using ADE)..... Thank you all very much for the many more or less successful explanations greetings ggerolamo BTW, EFBv2 is really a great piece of software - and thank you very much for the great support !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsk8 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, ggerolamo said: Ray, I have been using several flight simulators for several decades now I admire your professional statements in many relevant simmer groups, but believe me, in this case your answer (or instruction ;-)) unfortunately has nothing to do with my problem! Believe me: I know the difference between RL and simulation Alright, I accept that I have to live with this map-display problem (without using ADE)..... Thank you all very much for the many more or less successful explanations greetings ggerolamo BTW, EFBv2 is really a great piece of software - and thank you very much for the great support !! I have been simming longer than you and am a licensed pilot to boot. I soloed on a runway at Ft Lauderdale International that was named 9R. It was changed to 10 R years ago. Airac refers to it as 10R. That is how things change in aviation. If this really twist you into a pretzel, I don't know what to tell you. People don't use DOS 3.1 anymore either. Give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 What a poser ! you obviously did not understand what it is about... Sorry, but guys like you make me very annoying ! if you can not write anything reasonable, then please leave it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloJuliett Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Maybe an other approach is suitable for you. If you really wish this runway to be named still 05-23, also use an AIRAC file where the runway was still named so. Mappings will be on 05 and 23. As we are in a sim environment, you don't necessarily need to use the latest AIRAC. This may not be true if you are flying in a network environment where both parties have to agree on a certain data base. But matching data sources from different AIRACs (which is the underlying issue as the navigation data is from a different AIRAC than the runway definitions) will always create issues that can be solved as good as practicable or not at all. And please, be kind to each other. Different opinions are no reason to offend someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsk8 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, ggerolamo said: What a poser ! you obviously did not understand what it is about... Sorry, but guys like you make me very annoying ! if you can not write anything reasonable, then please leave it ... It's not me that is having a problem understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggerolamo Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 just let it be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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